New Halachah
That's it.
I am going to start going to Rabbanim and asking them, petitioning this new halachah gamur. That everyone must oblige, no matter what. It must be done. They are so naiive and young. If we don't make it mandatory, it will get so out of hand.
"Every kallah must be on birth control pills for shana rishona". No ifs, ands or buts.
It is a new rule. It is a new halachah. All shitahs agree with this Torah Mi Sinai.
I want this to be realistic and not a fantasy wishing. There are many many young mothers out there who are divorced during shanah rishona. And many many have a baby.
What is needed is that in kallah and in chosson class, they must stress the importance of communicating and stress that you are now going to be living with another person, other than your parents. The teacher should be intuned with the student and make sure the choice that was made is sitting well with the person. So many times have the words "I/he/she had had doubts while engaged". Let me ask, if you have doubts...who are you sharing those doubts and fears with? Is that person trust worthy enough and know enough about you, the situation to help you make the most important judgement call of your life?!
The lacking of girls and boys talking does not help. When a girl comes out of school and hasn't really spoken to a boy, of course she can be smitten by the attention he will shower upon her on a date. She will be blinded by that to see clearly, and at 18 or so, she is so young and wont realize the impact of her decission, untill it is too late.
But you also cannot forget the older girls. Once they have gone out with the one guy who has dated them the longest, they too lose sight of what is really the goal here and cave into the pressure to "stop being picky already, and settle down", that they can ignore bright red flags for the sake of the diamond ring and wedding band.
People wake up. Get the word out on the street. If while dating things do not look good, do not, and I repeat, do not go forward with it. It will not change. If while engaged you see things that you do not like, take a step back and evaluate the situation. Yes, you want to be under the chupah, but do you really want to be alone again a year later? Look into things and make sure you speak to people who can help you.
Couple therapy before marriage seem like a great idea. A nuetral party that gets to help clear the ear. Sometimes, we don't know it or realize it, but all the people we talk to have an agenda, and might not help you think clearly. Friends might encourage you or discourage you, and being on cloud nine, you don't realize what is happening.
So sign up. A petition is going around. The earliest there can be a baby is 21 months after the wedding. Permission is granted to get pregnant on the anniversary. No promises that it is smooth sailing, but at least, you spent a year getting to know one another without having your head in the toilet.
posted by BasTorah @ 1:03 AM
14 Comments:
bas torah
i totaly agree
in my opinion it would be awesome that every kallah should go on birth control for at least FIVE years. no kids for the first five years of a shadchan shidduch
detective
in tosefta shabbos it clears states that it is permitted for a woman to sterilize herself even though she has no kids yet because women have no mitzvah to have children .
and of course birth control which is reverseable is surely permitted
Here's an idea: don't ask a rabbi if he lets you use birth control. If he can "let" or "not let" then it just isn't his to "let".
Considering the fact that you don't "do" halacha, I find it spectacularly audacious that you would dictate halacha to others.
And, as any frum Jew knows, halacha is not a reflection of the desires or will of the (unschooled) proletariat, but of the dictates of God, as understood by the Rabbis of each age. If you can find poskim to agree with you, post away. But if not, do yourself a favor and remain silent.
Furthermore, your suggestion-for lack of a better term, and even if we assume it carries no halachic compulsion-stinks. Since when do Torah Jews approach marriage with the pragmatic concern that an increasing number of Jews divorce? That is certainly the route to Gemorrah, a self-fulfilling prophecy. What next, a no-fault divorce rather a get? Approaching marriage with the "realistic" view that it must surely end with divorce is the surest path to a further breakdown of Frum marriage.
I've said it before, and I'll continue to say it: If you don't "do" halacha, stop picking on halachic Jews.
First of all, the question of birth control is not as simple as all that. Especially for men. So being flippant about it doesn't get anyone anywhere. That said, I am looking for the source but I do recall reading that women who take the pill before their first child are more likely to have long term fertility problems then women who take afterwards. Are you willing to accept that responsibilty?
Bas..
I had identical stories with a sibling and close friend.
They were engaged..and had many doubts during the engagement..cold feet..almost broke it off...etc
After the marriage all the doubts fell aside and they're all so happy now..years later. If you were to plant a seed in the back of their minds that the first year is a sort of "trial period" it woud've been disastrous..
D
In an ideal world...........................................................................................................................................................
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as far as i know you do have to get a heter to use the pill. as someone pregnant in shona rishona, i totally disagree with your post. i feel that this pregnancy has helped to solidify our marriage and makes us work even harder since we are IY"H bringing a child into the world. i think that the AMERICAN frum community is being influenced by the american attitude that you can just get divorced when things get hard. this is not true. i am new to your blog but you sound like you don't have kids. if you don't, you don't know that children are just one more reason to work at marriage! i am sorry for you that you are so jaded that you think children are no longer a blessing to a marriage. wow.
Not everyone wants to pop artificial hormones into their body. There are other forms of BC but I'm not sure how effective they are. As to the shana rishona rule, it's great for those who want to do that (and plenty do, believe me) but making a rule out of it is absurd. There are some who have been dating the guy for years and are getting married just so they can finally have kids (and tie the knot, of course).
I've seen plenty of happy couples that get preg right away and feel even more blessed. This is the norm.
However, there's a well known Rav in the community with impeccable credentials who absolutely encrourages new BT couples to wait a year before trying to get preg. This put him at odds with other poskim in town.
However, I think if a couple asks, they must have some concerns and they still can "be fruitful and multiply!" Just a year later.
I've, sadly had guests at my house that were strangers to me, during pesach. As soon as I went to shul, the wife (with a 3 month old in shona rishona) starts telling my wife how she wants to get divorced and she has no respect for her husband. These were FFB's, her dad a prominent rabbi, and they'd done the 2 dates, get engaged route.
The system certainly needs tinkering with.
Your proposal, which Jack Black in typically obnoxious style misrepresents, is merely a proposal. Don't worry, no one else took you to be dictating for klal yisroel.
What you propose is already implemented by certain rabbeim. Hopefully the right people who need to ask will ask the right rabbeim. No need for a universal decree, which would be plain wrong. My wife became pregnant right away, and we felt very happy and blessed, and a few kids later we're still very happy and feeling blessed. And yes, I still love her and am attracted to her!
It's not a death sentence to be married with kids.
One more caveat, after 3 kids, we started using birth control, because she was overwhelmed. I support her 100% and when she feels ready, we can proceed. We're not qualified to raise 7 or 10 or whatever kids anyway. I'd be very happy with 4-6 and think I could still be a good father, not leeching off the system and spending plenty of time nurturing each child.
BTA,
I agree with you that my style is uniformly obnoxious. But I disagree that Bas is "merely making a suggestion." If that's the case, why clothe it in the trappings of a "New Halacha"? In fact, why does she talk of halacha at all, if she doesn't "do" it? As I've said, when she changes her moniker, I'll lay off. Not before.
SO, Bas Torah, Jak has a clear problem of your self-description. I have a theory about why you call yourself that.
Could you please explain how you defend calling yourself a "bas torah" given your rather radical writings?
Bas Torah, I see your point, though obviously it will never be sanctioned by Halacha.
However, from a pragmatic point of view, I don't think instituting your new "Halacha" will solve anything. After a while, people will just start viewing Shana Rishona as a sort-of continuation of the dating process. Which in turn will cause you in ten years time to declare "That's it, people should take birth control for the first TWO years of marriage". The cycle will go on ad-infinitum. People should just learn to take marriage, with all it's commitments and obligations, very seriously.
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